Sherdog Rewind: An Interview with Fuel TV Executive Vice President George Greenberg
Like many people at Fox Sports, George Greenberg remembers fondly the Ultimate Fighting Championship’s first brush with national cable, when a few fights aired in 2002 on “The Best Damn Sports Show Period.” The specials came before “The Ultimate Fighter,” before Spike TV and before the UFC’s prospects were bright.
Despite encouraging ratings, the UFC did not find a permanent home with Fox until last year, when a seven-year programming deal was announced with Fox Sports Media Group. Now, a fledgling Fox cable property called Fuel TV has turned over virtually half of its airtime to UFC content.
Advertisement
As the UFC on Fuel TV “Ellenberger vs. Sanchez” approaches on Wednesday in Omaha, Neb., with a welterweight bout between Jake Ellenberger and Diego Sanchez as its headliner, Greenberg joined Jack Encarnacao on the Sherdog Radio Network’s “Rewind” program. In this in-depth interview, he discusses the history and evolution of the UFC as a sports property, how Fuel plans to leverage its exclusive rights to fight highlights and how MMA compares to golf and tennis.
To stay updated on the show, follow it on Twitter @SherdogRewind.
Sherdog.com: When did mixed martial arts first come on your radar in your TV career?
Greenberg: Probably about back eight, nine years ago, [before the] invention of a show called “The Best Damn Sports Show.” I had seen it. One of my youngest sons was a fan at that time. Very young, but it was something we were very curious about. Any sport -- in particular combat sports -- [is] something that networks, regardless of whether you’re cable or “a network franchise,” should be looking at. So we spoke to [UFC President] Dana [White] and [UFC CEO] Lorenzo [Fertitta] and we actually had ... I think there were four UFC fights on Fox Sports Net as part of “The Best Damn Sports Show,” and they rated through the roof; they were great. [Fox] didn’t do any marketing at all, and it was very obvious to me back then that this was going to be a sports franchise for the future. And there aren’t that many of them around and when you see one, you got to do everything in your power to try to make the people around you aware that properties like this are out there.
Sherdog.com: What happened back then with Fox? Why did the “Best Damn” ratings not lead to the kind of arrangement with the UFC that was announced last year?
Greenberg: Long story short: in sports television, as in life, timing is everything. We were spending an awful lot of time trying to create Fox Sports regions, which are an incredibly successful operation today. There are 14 [regional sports networks]; they are incredible money makers for the Fox Sports Media Group. And probably the short answer would be it just wasn’t the right time. After that, I went out and looked at Pride [Fighting Championships] and did business with the IFL, and since I’ve been here at Fuel TV, we’ve had a few dances with some other people. But always, the eye was on the prize. You always wanted to see if there was a way to come back to the UFC, and when [Fox Sports executives] Eric Shanks and Randy Freer took over, their vision was shared, as far as the potential for the UFC. The discussion started, and once we got the ad team along, as well, we realized this could be a very vibrant property for us, from a programming point of view and also from the sales perspective, as well.
Sherdog.com: Compare how MMA and the UFC was received in the advertising community back in 2002 and today.
Greenberg: In any combat sport, whether it’s boxing, mixed martial arts, even judo in the Olympics, people are on a mat; there’s always potential for blood to get on a mat. These are tough sports. And then you had the UFC in its first incarnation, when Lorenzo and Dana took over. They had to calm down the wild, wild west. They needed regulation. They needed to be monitored. They needed to be sanctioned by boxing commissions around this country, and that’s the first thing they did. They made it a proper and respected sports organization, and, with that, advertisers will now pay attention. And, so, when you look at ring mats now, whether you see Bud Light, whether you see Burger King, whether you see Harley Davidson, mainstream advertisers have come to the party for the simple reason that this league of the Ultimate Fighting Championship is a magnet for viewers 18 to 34 [years old], male viewers 18 to 34 and 18 to 49. And what do you know? They also bring 25 to 30 percent [of] women with them. This sport has grown incredibly in the last seven to eight years. Spike basically built a network on the back of the UFC and they did it very smartly, and Dana and Lorenzo, together with Spike, leveraged everything they could. They launched a real successful series with “The Ultimate Fighter” and that fed into the fights, and they created a wonderful machine over there. Now that this property is of a proper sports organization, we can cycle this through Fox Sports on the network, we can push it to FX, we can push it to Fuel, and, if you watch our promotion and how we do it, it’s just one big cycle. If the fight’s on Fox, that’s where the headlight goes. If the fight’s on FX, that’s where it goes. If it’s on Fuel TV, as in [Wednesday] when we have our first live fight, the same thing will happen there, but we are not afraid to martial all our sister programming channels and digital space to promote towards Fuel TV. We are, believe it or not, one big Fox here. If you watch our telecast, it will not be viewer-perceptible, graphically, musically, tonally or talent-wise, which network you’re watching. Now within that structure, big Fox has Curt Menefee at the desk. That’s how much we respect this sport, because we want to fit a little bit of a pre-game and get into action. FX doesn’t have it yet, and, at Fuel TV, we have a little bit more because we have Jay Glazer, who is the number one NFL insider, but his passion is mixed martial arts and [the] UFC. He knows more about this sport than any sort of “non-participant,” and he is a participant on some level because he trains in it and used to be a wrestler. And he brings his passion to it. And I’ve worked with Jay for almost seven years now and his knowledge is incredible, his passion is unmatched, his thorough preparation is perfect for this. And when we team him up with anybody, believe me, he’s going to make that person a better broadcaster.
Sherdog.com: Fuel has been offering immediate post-shows after all UFC events, offering immediate analysis, interviews and highlights. What do you think these shows add?
Greenberg: Fuel TV is offering UFC fans more information, more shows, more UFC than anybody in television history. When we do a pre-game show, Jay sits down with Kenny [Florian] -- or last week it was Rashad [Evans] -- and previews every single fight. If you watch how we do this show, it’s a rolling conversation. Jay and Kenny have never worked [together] before, but they knew each other a little bit. It’s a give and a go, very much like the way Jay does his interviews. The great thing about our shows: they’re chockfull of what we call in the business “B-roll,” translated as “highlights.” We don’t have a restriction on us, for the most part, on how much highlight content we can roll into a show because of the agreement we have with the UFC going into this seven-year relationship. We do have a bit of restriction on pay-per-views, but a little bit more; we have a lot more leeway than most organizations. But when it comes to owning footage, nobody out there can do what we do. We have exclusive rights to do this. And anybody can do a talk show, but it’s very tough to talk about Jose Aldo and Kenny Florian … you can talk about it, but if you really want to see that footage, we’ve got the rights to run that exclusive B-roll, and that’s what makes our shows flow better visually. Jay is very much an active participant, along with a gentleman named Steve Becker, who’s my executive producer who worked with me in “Best Damn,” coincidentally, on putting together a format that just rolls, and it’s a visual feast for a UFC fan. We will exhaust any possibility we can to have a discussion on a fighter, a matchup or a potential matchup. So much so that if I’ve allotted one hour or live time to a post-game show and I think we’re on a roll, I’ll let it go 15 minutes longer. That’s how much I respect the amount of information we want to get out to the viewer. We do everything in partnership with the UFC, but [“UFC Tonight”] is the “official news and information show for the UFC” and [hosts] Todd Harris and Kenny Florian have been incredible in helping us create a brand new package and a franchise on the back of the UFC, like getting your once-a-week fix, everything you need to find out about the UFC. We give you the most current information as late as we can give it to you. We have all exclusive interviews with Ariel Helwani, who’s a wonderful interviewer himself and well-respected within the industry, and we’ll hold things to as close to press time as possible to get information out. We have hopes that we can take this show maybe another day or two during the week and maybe have two or three telecasts a week of original shows for “UFC Tonight.” It’s become a wonderful franchise in the first six or seven weeks of its lifespan.
Sherdog.com: It strikes me that, as a pay-per-view company, the UFC would want to withhold highlights of fight finishes that they ask people to pay to see, but we’ve seen big fight finishes on Fuel right after a pay-per-view ends. You mentioned there are some limitations to what you can show from UFC pay-per-view events on Fuel. What are they?
Greenberg: The limitation is just a matter of the amount of time that we have for these highlights. We have to respect it, and we have to respect the amount of finishes we could show, although you’ve seen them. What you haven’t seen anyplace else: how many fighters do you see come to our desk right after their fight? It is unbelievable. You couldn’t do this in an NFL game, with the depth and spontaneity with which we do it. These guys are so respectful of Dana and Lorenzo and [producer] Craig Borsari that this is part of their job. You want to promote this sport, you want to build this sport, you want to be like a major sports organization, then you have to act that way, as well. So when you see guys that might just have gone toe-to-toe in a 15-minute war and they’re showing up, or a 25-minute war and they’re showing up on our desk, we’re glad to have them. And I’m still amazed in the sporting world that that could happen, but when you partner up with the UFC, you get an amazing partner. And when you’re a sports entity like Fox Sports versus an entertainment division that tries to do this, we know how to maximize these opportunities. And it was the most seamless integration of two organizations I’ve ever seen in my entire sports career in 33 years. I’ve never seen anything like it. Yes, we know a lot of the same people, but when it came to integrating products, the things we wanted to accomplish -- which is, at the end of the day, you’ve got to have great pay-per-views -- you have to. But we need great fights on Fox. We need great cards on FX. We need great cards on Fuel TV. And they all feed into each other, and [the] UFC realizes the value of allowing us to use this footage in a way that’s proper, that’s respectful, and one that can help build the brand of the UFC on Fox properties.
Sherdog.com: Does the exclusivity you mentioned mean we won’t be seeing many highlights on networks like ESPN going forward?
Greenberg: I can’t speak to that. That would be a Dana and Lorenzo question. Whatever agreements they have, they have to a certain extent, meaning that, obviously, as a rights holder, we’re going to get the biggest share of highlights, and it’s really up to somebody else if they want to cover it with an over-the-shoulder graphic for 15, 20 seconds worth of footage in respects to other divisions, other channels or networks that may want to show it. That’s OK. I mean, I have never seen fans like UFC fans. They are the most passionate. They are the most smart, as far as what they want to see in their sport. They will find their material anyway possible. When you look at the power right now of social media that’s exploding, you realize that Dana has almost two million people he can tweet to. That is a powerful, powerful mechanism that he can use with which to ignite UFC fans and he’s really good about it, and Dana has his own style. We wouldn’t present tweets coming out from Fuel the exact same way that Dana does, but Dana’s his own man. He represents the personality of the UFC. We’re governed by a little bit of different gamesmanship, if you will, but our agendas are very much the same.
Sherdog.com: Do you see a time when the UFC doesn’t need to do PPV, when it can command enough money from television networks to run like every other sport does on free TV?
Greenberg: It’s an interesting question, but I think their business model’s completely different than any other league I’ve been around, so that’s a question for Dana and Lorenzo. Obviously, the pay-per-views do well for them. It’s a gamble on their part. Say they’re going to put on 13, 14 pay-per-views a year and deliver the kind of caliber of fights they have and then still deliver great fights for all the Fox entities. But they’ve managed to do it so far, and I think when you’re 350 athletes deep, that’s an amazing amount of talent and you realize that every one of them are so hungry to fight every single day. That’s what they are, so that’s their league, that’s their power base, and anybody else that isn’t in the UFC is just somewhere else that really isn’t relevant in the big picture. There’s a lot of talented athletes out there. Most talented American guys, they’re playing stick and ball sports. But when you start tapping wresters and boxers, you find out what’s out there -- an amazing amount of talent now -- and find out how they cross-train or how they might have played soccer or might have been basketball players before, whatever it is. But they’ve brought a passion to a sport where you’ve got to want this. There is no time off. It’s in a lot of ways, and I’ll use the comparison to tennis, it’s all on your back. You have a great support team with you, but if you don’t every second of that match want to be in there, you could get hurt in a real serious way, and you’ve go to want this. And that’s why I think the caliber of these athletes are unlike any I’ve seen before. The cardio, the training, everything these guys do are models for other professional athletes, and that’s why Glazer can cross-train a lot of football players. And that’s why a lot of athletes, whether surfers, BMX guys ... we’ve seen it in the action sports world -- they want to be like these fighters because, if you can get your cardio and your body in this kind of shape, then you are ready for any punishment. Go ahead, you punch me, I’m going to punch you back harder, and that has to carry for 15 to 25 minutes. You know, in a football game, OK, I’m an offensive lineman, you’re a defensive lineman, let’s go: 2.8 seconds later it’s over. We can take a bow for 30 seconds. You can’t here. You can’t hide anywhere. I’m in awe of each one of these athletes, and the training and dedication [cannot be] compared to any other sport that I’ve ever seen. I put them up there just like triathletes but at a different level because of how violent it could potentially be.
Sherdog.com: Fans have noticed a big difference in how many viewers Fuel can attract versus what we were used to on Spike, which is in, I think, 98 million homes while Fuel, I think, is in around 30 million. At the same time, you guys are seeing significant growth in even this short amount of time as you become associated with the UFC.
Greenberg: First of all, yeah, we are not a fully distributed cable network. We’re in 36 million homes, and I can tell you the influence that the UFC has had since Jan. 1 has been mind-boggling to us. We had the most watched month of all time, up by 100 percent compared in 2011. The key here is, and I don’t want to get into too much TV minutiae, but, basically, we’ve gone up in age a little bit, which is just great for us; we’re increasing the key demographic, which is most attractive to advertisers in 18 to 34 and 18 to 49. And I am not at all intimidated by the fact that “our distribution isn’t as great as Spike TV.” What I have to look at is that in five or six weeks we have set ratings records every single week. We grow every week, and I can’t control our distribution right now. What I can do -- and what I can control -- is make Fuel TV the place that you, as a UFC fan, want to come to watch to be informed about your sport, celebrate your athletes and watch more UFC programming than any other network on television. That’s what I can control. And when you watch one of our telecasts, I promise you, you won’t feel any difference if you’re watching Fox “NFL Sunday” or “UFC Tonight” in tone and intention, from graphics, to music, to interview powers. Fox comes in with a lot of swagger in the room. I don’t care if you’re in two millions homes, 35 million, or 100 million on a network, you have a presentation to uphold, and [the] UFC is real happy about the kind of exposure we’re giving them, the way we’re treating all their athletes. We have so much faith in their production that they’re actually producing the events. They know far better how to cover a UFC event than we do. All the meringue around it, of producing an event, is where we think we can bring our expertise to this. So again, getting back to the numbers, I am happy to have the UFC. Our ratings are blowing through the roof. Advertisers are coming here like they’ve never come before [and] we have a free view [week] next week, from the 13th through the 19th, on an additional eight million homes. You’re going to come and experience [it] just like it would be [on] an HBO or a Showtime preview. We got it. And you’ll come along and you’ll be able to see exactly what kind of programming Fuel TV can offer the UFC fan. But I think, most importantly, we can build other shows on the back of UFC products, other like shows. And that, to us, is also going to be a pot of gold from a programming perspective, that if you’re watching a UFC event, “Hmm, could I get you to sample ‘Strangers in Danger?’ Could I get you to sample a ‘Built to Shred?’ Could I get you to sample a show called ‘Punk Payback?’” Yeah, we can do all that because we believe these shows will fit in well and broaden our programming base. And a rising tide that lifts all boats, that’s what the UFC is to us: an absolute ratings pot of gold and an absolute show-launcher for us on a programming perspective.
Sherdog.com: So with Fuel’s first live fight night on Wednesday, tell me what George Greenberg will be doing on Thursday after the show is done. What questions does he ask? What does he look for? What does he want to know?
Greenberg: I’ll be at the fight in Omaha, and the first thing, when we go off the air, I will say to everybody, “All right, here’s a postmortem. How did we do?” It’s pretty intense in a live truck when you’re on for two hours, for four, five hours. It’s a very aggressive, intense atmosphere in which things are very finely honed, and, sometimes, in television, we think we know every single answer because we have to make instant decisions. Most of the time, because our planning is good, we usually are able to satisfy most of our game plan. But the thing I want to do when we’re done with that telecast, before I’ve even come back here, is [ask], “OK, team, how did we do? Did we give the UFC fan everything they wanted to see, every sound bite we thought we wanted to hear? Did we drain the bucket of UFC entertainment and leave nothing on the table for that UFC fan.” And if we can answer yes, I’ll live with that and I’ll come back the next morning, watch the tapes, and I’ll make a few notes on how we did cosmetically, telegenically, from an audio perspective. We want to enhance. We want to bring to these events more enhanced audio, more enhanced video, different ways that we can help the UFC viewer appreciate his sport even more. How about this one? I’ve never been part of a perfect telecast in me entire life. I’ve worked every major event, from Super Bowls, World Series, Indy 500s, Iron Man, triathlons, you name it, pregame shows from every place in the world, including Afghanistan, which [is where] I was last year, and you really have a good view about what you’ve done when you’re finished. But you always come back as a TV producer -- and at the end of the day that’s what I am, I may be a general manager but I’m a director/producer by trade -- and I go, “How much better can we be next [time]?” And that’s what brings me back every single day.
Related Articles
